The CEO Advantage

Meta-Intelligence & Exponential Practice

April 21, 2026 John Anderson · Bob Evett · Ethan Brace 2h 36m · Tablet recording
Private — Internal Working Document

Meeting Framing

A 2h 36m coaching practice discussion that started between John Anderson and Bob Evett — refining how Character Compass fits into annual reviews — and widened considerably when Ethan joined around the 26-minute mark. The second half ranged across Meta-Intelligence as a positioning hook, the artificial vs. emotional intelligence framing, the Exponential Wave metaphor, acquisition-led growth, and the Silver/Gold/Platinum product tier structure. The meeting closed with a brief update on closing out Replace Retirement LLC.

This was generative, not decisional. The thread holding it together: how does John position and deliver the Exponential Leader Practice to the next wave of audiences? No formal decisions were recorded; several useful reframes and product ideas emerged.

TL;DR

John is building a presentation called Meta-Intelligence — framed around removing ignorance in an exponential age and getting people onto the right side of "the giant wave." Bob and Ethan helped sharpen it from a vague concept toward a TEDx-style talk with a clear funnel: wave framing → intelligences needed to surf it → Silver Program triangle as the entry offer at $500 / 12 weeks. An artificial vs. emotional intelligence contrast was discussed as one possible framing device. Replace Retirement close-out is waiting on Steve's signature and one additional document.

Quick Stats

2h 36mDuration
3Participants
~26 minEthan joins
$500Silver program price point discussed
90 daysSilver trial duration (Bob's recommendation)
~25Anticipated first audience (West Michigan breakfast)

Notable Quotes

"Meta-intelligence is another way to position people to want to go on an Exponential Leader Practice experience. Instead of calling it 'we are as gods,' it's Meta-intelligence. It's a hook." — John Anderson, 00:14:28
"There's some really interesting things we could do with artificial intelligence and emotional intelligence doing a compare and contrast." — Bob Evett, 00:24:06
"Ignorance is not an option is the thing I'm hearing you saying." — Ethan Brace, 00:43:00
"I'm not letting that thing hit me and I'm not letting it hit any of you. I'm going to surf that son of a bitch." — John Anderson, 00:49:42
"Alex Hormozi… he's grown a multimillion-dollar acquisition firm in less than 10 years… 'You can't hire your way to growth, you've got to acquire your way to growth.'" — Ethan Brace, 02:15:58
"When it's all set, then I can send it on to Steve with a phone call and just say, here's what you asked for. You close this down, it's just an entity floating out there that we're not following rules for." — John Anderson, 02:35:55

Why This Matters

John has been orbiting the Meta-Intelligence concept for months without a clean delivery structure. This session moved it from a cloud of ideas toward a presentable arc: retirement myth → the Wave is real and coming → here are the intelligences to surf it → here is a $500 triangle to start. That's a product funnel, not just a talk.

The artificial vs. emotional intelligence contrast — raised by Bob, echoed by Ethan — was proposed as a possible framing device for the presentation.

Bob's insight that the Wave metaphor works because the audience can't choose to avoid it (unlike motorcycles or skydiving) is the sharpest reframe of the session. It shifts the pitch from inspiration to urgency without fear-mongering.

Key Topics

1. Meta-Intelligence as Positioning Hook

John is crafting a presentation he's calling "Meta-Intelligence" — built around the idea that in an exponential age, awareness of what's happening is itself a form of intelligence. The concept started as something John called "we are as gods" (referencing the Peter Diamandis & Steven Kotler book), but he's reframing it into a more accessible entry point for executive audiences.

His framing: most people are navigating exponential change with a linear brain and outdated tools. Meta-Intelligence names that gap and positions the Exponential Leader Practice as the solution. It's not a standalone product — it's a funnel entry. John at 00:14:28:

"Meta-intelligence is another way to position people to want to go on an Exponential Leader Practice experience. Instead of calling it 'we are as gods,' it's Meta-intelligence. It's a hook." — John Anderson, 00:14:28

Bob pressed on the strategic intent: is this about positioning CEO Advantage as thought leaders, or will audiences do something with it? John's answer was clear — it's a hook into the deeper practice, not a standalone deliverable. The end-of-talk offer is the Silver Program triangle at $500 / 12 weeks with a coach in the room.

The four elements of Meta-Intelligence discussed: financial intelligence, artificial intelligence, natural intelligence, and emotional intelligence — though Bob noted they resist neat segmentation and may be better represented as overlapping or as a constellation rather than a hierarchy.

2. Character Compass Refinement (Annual Review Structure)

The first 26 minutes (John + Bob only) focused on whether the Character Compass — the three-element framework of Purpose, Core Values, and Principles — is being revisited often enough in the coaching practice.

Bob raised this: he does not include the full Character Compass review in his annual sessions the way John does. John's annuals run 3 hours and include the full character analysis; Bob's are shorter. The exchange surfaced a real gap in practice consistency between them.

John's approach in annuals: he reads the client's principles back to them and asks, "When you operate this way, does your ship sail smoothly?" — framing it as reconfirmation rather than rework. The purpose, even if "half right," puts clients ahead of 80% of people and gets them walking the path.

Possible solutions discussed:

  • Make Character Compass its own dedicated session (not just embedded in annual)
  • Add richer questions around whether the purpose is actually delivering — using the reading John opened with as a framework
  • Biannual revisit (not every quarter, but not once-a-decade either)
  • Rotate the three elements annually — John cites this as Steve Wojno's original suggestion

The discussion treated the Character Compass as a steering mechanism worth revisiting periodically. Whether that becomes a change to Bob's annual-review process is an open question.

3. Artificial vs. Emotional Intelligence Framing

Bob raised the idea of a direct compare-and-contrast between artificial intelligence and emotional intelligence. The proposed framing: AI is accelerating while EI is what remains distinctly human. Whether it becomes the presentation's main hook is John's call.

"There's some really interesting things we could do with artificial intelligence and emotional intelligence doing a compare and contrast." — Bob Evett, 00:24:06

Ethan echoed this on joining. The framing is a natural on-ramp to the Character Compass (EI at its core) without using the CEOA vocabulary explicitly. It also sets up the "four intelligences" frame: if AI handles one quadrant, the other three (natural, financial, emotional) are the human domain to develop.

John's extended riff: Data from Star Trek Next Generation as the archetype of what AI can do — faster computation, total recall, limitless knowledge — and why that's actually terrifying if you're a coach whose competitive moat is knowing things. The honest answer: the practice is the moat, not the information.

4. The Exponential Wave Metaphor

The "giant wave" slide is John's visual anchor. The central pitch: you can't sit on the beach with a cocktail and watch the wave. It's coming. The choice isn't whether to engage — it's whether you engage prepared or unprepared.

Bob's key refinement at 01:10:14: the Wave works as an analogy specifically because the audience can't choose not to face it. You choose to jump out of an airplane or get on a motorcycle. You don't choose to be in the path of the wave. This makes the talk motivational rather than intimidating — it's not about risk tolerance, it's about preparation.

Bob's athletic analogy: as athletes become more proficient, "the game slows down." The practice doesn't speed you up relative to the wave — it gives you the tools to perceive and respond to it without panic. That reframe is more accessible to the executive audience than the extreme-sport analogies.

The presentation arc John is developing:

  1. The retirement myth — soft waves, beach, cocktail. (John's own experience: reached the pinnacle early; it didn't deliver.)
  2. What changed — the waves are now 80-foot rollers. Not a nice rolly thing anymore.
  3. The intelligences needed to surf them (Meta-Intelligence framework).
  4. The practice — Character Compass, triangle, calling vs. career.
  5. The offer — Silver Program triangle with a coach, 90 days, ~$500.

Ethan's suggestion: use video and sensory anchors — the Isle of Man motorcycle race, snowmobile flow — to transfer the feeling of being in flow on a physical machine to the conceptual flow John is describing. Let the audience feel it before asking them to reason about it.

5. Acquisition-Led Growth (Alex Hormozi reference)

Ethan introduced Alex Hormozi — a younger entrepreneur who grew a multimillion-dollar acquisition firm in under 10 years — with a specific line that stuck: "You can't hire your way to growth; you've got to acquire your way to growth."

"Alex Hormozi… he's grown a multimillion-dollar acquisition firm in less than 10 years… 'You can't hire your way to growth, you've got to acquire your way to growth.'" — Ethan Brace, 02:15:58 (transcript: "Formosi")

The context was the Silver Program funnel — how to get the 60% middle of any audience to actually sign up. Ethan's Hormozi frame: "Give them an offer they can't refuse. Make saying no feel stupid." For the Silver Program, that means: $500, 12 weeks, real coach in the triangle, no arm-twisting. The product sells itself if the presentation builds the desire correctly.

Also discussed: Hormozi-style scaling logic applied to CEOA — you can't coach your way to 10 million triangles. The platform (Legacy Map Builder + JohnBot) is the acquisition engine. John noted the parallel to Peter Diamandis building the Abundance 360 model with escalating tiers and access-based upsells.

The Silver/Gold/Platinum tier structure that emerged:

  • Silver: Triangle-based entry via AI + light coaching. ~$500 / 12 weeks as a trial, then subscription. Offer at end of Meta-Intelligence presentation.
  • Gold: The existing 1:1 coaching work John and Bob do now.
  • Platinum: High-access tier — dinners with Peter Diamandis, seats on the plane, Exponential Thinking events. John suggested ~$30,000 as a test price point.

6. Replace Retirement Close-Out

Near the end (02:35), John gave a brief status update on Replace Retirement LLC. The entity is "just floating out there" — no active operations, not following required rules for an active LLC. John's plan: once all IP formalities and the Steve agreement are settled, he'll send Steve a phone call and the final documents, and close it down.

Status of the IP agreement: John confirmed Elizabeth has signed. Bob Maskus has signed. Steve's signature is the remaining item. There are two documents Steve needs to sign — the dissolution consent (the one with all existing signatures) and the separate IP usage agreement (what Steve originally asked for: permission to continue using the Legacy Map tools 1:1 with clients).

John's read on Steve: not malicious, not obstructionist in intent — but passive-aggressive in behavior. Steve continues to work with John's clients (Granger, Ross) and has invoiced significant fees through John's introductions without paying the standard 10% finder's fee. John is waiving that fee as part of the goodwill gesture. The goal is a clean close, not a battle.

"When it's all set, then I can send it on to Steve with a phone call and just say, here's what you asked for. You close this down, it's just an entity floating out there that we're not following rules for." — John Anderson, 02:35:55

See the Actions tab for next steps on the Steve agreement.

Takeaways

The distilled "so what" — not a summary of what was said, but what's actually useful going forward.

1
The Meta-Intelligence presentation has a funnel now. It isn't just a talk — it's the top of a product funnel ending in the Silver Program offer. The arc is: retirement myth → the Wave → four intelligences → $500 triangle with a coach. John needs to build the presentation around this arc, not around explaining Meta-Intelligence as a concept.
2
AI vs. EI was proposed as a framing device for the presentation. Bob raised a compare-and-contrast between artificial and emotional intelligence as one possible structural hook. Whether it anchors the presentation or sits inside a larger frame is open.
3
The Wave works because the audience can't opt out. Bob's insight at 01:10: you choose to get on a motorcycle; you don't choose to be in the wave's path. This reframe moves the pitch from "do you want to be brave?" to "do you want to be prepared?" — a much easier yes for a room of executives.
4
The 20-60-20 audience model shapes the pitch. John's framework: 20% won't be in the room, 20% are already sold, 60% are leaning in but not converted. The presentation should speak to the 60% — people who sense something is changing but haven't committed to a practice. Don't pitch to the already-convinced; don't waste energy on the resistant 20%.
5
The Silver Program needs a coach in the room for the initial YPO pilot. John and Bob agreed: for the first West Michigan breakfast audience (~25 people, 20% conversion target), put a real coach in the triangle for the 90-day trial. This makes the pilot authentic and provides learning for what the AI-scaled version needs to replicate. Position it as a "tune-up," not a commitment.
6
Character Compass check-ins in annual reviews were discussed. John includes them; Bob's current annual structure doesn't foreground them the same way. Options raised: a dedicated periodic session, or richer questions embedded in the annual. No commitment made.
7
Ethan's dad story is a usable narrative anchor. The conversation about Ethan's father running for city council in Franklin, KY — and his answer that money is how you affect change in people — grounds the ignorance-removal thesis in something human and specific. It's worth keeping in Ethan's version of the pitch if he gives one to his dev community.
8
Steve is the only remaining blocker on Replace Retirement. Two documents, one phone call. Ethan will prepare the IP usage agreement (what Steve asked for) alongside the existing dissolution document. John will call Steve when the packet is ready. No deadline was set in the meeting — one should be.

Action Items

John
  • Finalize the Meta-Intelligence presentation deck — retirement myth → Wave → four intelligences → Silver Program offer. TEDx-style, ~45 min, with video moments (Isle of Man, wave footage). Target: West Michigan YPO breakfast.
  • Call Steve Wojno once Ethan has the agreement packet ready. Send both documents (dissolution consent + IP usage agreement). Close Replace Retirement LLC.
  • Clarify how the Meta-Intelligence presentation feeds into the Exponential Leader Practice product roadmap — Silver → Gold → Platinum tier structure and pricing.
  • Pilot the Platinum tier concept with 2–3 existing clients (Chad flagged). Test price point ~$30,000 for access to Peter Diamandis dinners, plane seats, Exponential Thinking events.
Bob

Bob noted (2026-04-22) that discussion items were logged here as actions without an explicit commitment. Items below are topics Bob raised or discussed, not tasks he agreed to own.

  • Discussed (not committed): whether Character Compass check-ins warrant a richer or more explicit treatment in annual reviews.
Ethan
  • Prepare the Steve agreement packet: (1) the existing dissolution document with all other signatures, (2) a new IP usage agreement per Steve's request — personal 1:1 coaching permitted, org/LLM/group use prohibited.
  • Send John and Bob a meeting summary + the Steve documents for review before John calls Steve.
  • Continue building out the Legacy Map Builder / JohnBot. Give Dennis a check-in — 90-day pilot clock hasn't started yet. Aim for 80% completion before handing off.
  • Connect with John II (John's son) — call already scheduled for 2026-04-21 at 2pm. Introduce him to the tools and begin exploring whether there's a working relationship to build.

People Mentioned

In the Room
PersonRole / Relevance
John Anderson CEO Advantage Founder, The CEO Advantage. Executive coach, author. Developing the Meta-Intelligence presentation and the Silver/Gold/Platinum product tier structure. Drove the majority of both session segments.
Bob Evett CEO Advantage Coach, CEO Advantage. Joined John for the full session. Raised several reframing angles during the discussion, including AI vs. EI contrast, wave framing, and an athletic "game slows down" analogy.
Ethan Brace Co-founder Co-founder (Exponential Advisor), builder of Legacy Map Builder and JohnBot. Joined ~26 min in. Introduced the Hormozi acquisition framing and the ignorance-removal thesis. Has a 2pm call with John II the same day.
Clients Referenced
PersonRole / Relevance
Rob Long-tenured client of John's (3+ years in practice). Did a 5-Why exercise on his goals with Bob to reconfirm Character Compass alignment. Referenced as an example of someone deeply committed to the journey.
Jeff Client. Referenced alongside Rob as "committed in different ways, absolutely good."
Ryan Bob's youngest client. Very committed despite age. Bob's example of how commitment, not tenure, drives results.
Kevin Client. Referenced multiple times: bought a humanoid robot to anticipate where technology is going (not ordered yet). Has a son Aubrey running day-to-day; Kevin positions himself as the company futurist. Bob notes: "If Kevin isn't bought in, we don't have Rob, Tim, Aubrey, or Eric."
Harvey Referenced in passing in context of Kevin's organization.
Jim "Hacken" (last name uncertain — transcription unclear; possibly Hackett) Referenced by Bob — a "looking forward" leader who frustrated dealers at a large furniture company by always thinking ahead rather than focusing on today's sales.
Nick Granger Was briefly in John's Triangle (coaching program). Referenced in context of family-business succession and the question of "would I have this job if my name wasn't on the building?"
Dennis Current JohnBot / Legacy Map Builder pilot user. Enthusiastic early adopter — "thinks we're on to something." Pilot clock hasn't formally started yet; Ethan owes him a check-in and a more complete build.
External Figures Referenced
PersonRole / Relevance
Alex Hormozi Entrepreneur, Acquisition.com founder. Grew a multimillion-dollar holding company in under 10 years. Ethan cited his line: "You can't hire your way to growth, you've got to acquire your way to growth." (Transcript renders as "Formosi" — corrected here.)
Steven Kotler Author (The Rise of Superman, Stealing Fire). John referenced Kotler's writing on flow states and the "Dark Side of Abundance" chapter — specifically on creativity as trainable and China's solar energy expansion. John wrote to Kotler the morning of this meeting.
Steve Wojno Former Replace Retirement partner. Has not yet signed the dissolution or IP usage documents. John plans to call him once Ethan has the packet ready. Characterized as passive-aggressive in follow-through, not malicious in intent. Continues to work with John's clients (Granger, Ross) under an informal arrangement.
Elizabeth Goede Former Replace Retirement partner. Signed the dissolution documents. Not actively coaching. Referenced as someone who benefits from being in John's orbit — has spoken at Bob Shenfeld's event, attends Yale events.
John II (John's son) John Anderson's son. Proposed majority shareholder of Exponential Advisor (trust requirement). Ethan has a 2pm call with him on this same day. Currently "purposeless" per John's candid assessment — working through purpose and meaning questions. John is paying Ethan $5K to coach him through the Legacy Map process; if he engages with the company, it converts to capital.
Ethan's dad Running for city council in Franklin, Kentucky. Ethan raised him (~44:36) as a narrative anchor: when Ethan asked "how do you affect change in people?", his dad's answer was "money — help people save money." Ethan used it to explore the question of how to convey the importance of removing ignorance to an audience that's focused on immediate concerns. A useful story for Ethan's version of the Meta-Intelligence talk to his dev community.
Peter Diamandis Abundance 360 founder. Not in the meeting but referenced throughout as John's model for exponential-thinking event curation and tiered access pricing. John sends clients to Abundance 360 and brings Diamandis to Michigan for Exponential Thinking events.

Full Transcript

Source: tablet recording (2026-04-21-tablet-recording.aac). Transcribed by AssemblyAI universal-3-pro with speaker diarization. Speaker A = John Anderson, Speaker B = Bob Evett, Speaker C = Ethan Brace. Timestamps are approximate. Transcript preserved as-is from source, including "Formosi" (Alex Hormozi) and other auto-transcription artifacts.

John Anderson
00:00:00
It's a survival guide, and the first section is called "Lying 2.0." And so he said, uh, the purpose of purpose. In May of 1961, President John F. Kennedy made a promise so outrageous it bordered on fantasy: the United States would send someone to the moon before the end of the decade and bring them back alive. At that time, the United States had only put one astronaut into space. The flight lasted 15 minutes. NASA didn't have a lunar module or a guidance computer, not even the materials needed for a heat shield that could survive re-entry. Kennedy wasn't describing a plan, he was declaring a purpose. This purpose became a gravitational force that pulled together physicists, engineers, chemists, computer scientists, and policymakers. It sparked the invention of the integrated circuit, the birth of satellite communications, and the creation of mission control. Over 200 new technologies were built from scratch, not as the goal of the mission, but as a byproduct of its purpose. "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things," Kennedy said, "not because they are easy, but because they are hard." That's the purpose of purpose. It reframes the impossible as an inevitable by transforming constraint into creativity. [continues reading on purpose, neuroplasticity, dopamine, and the meta-adaptive function of purpose in an exponential world] ...Again, back to the MetaIntelligence thing, because it was the same concept — How do you prepare somebody to navigate this exponential age and do it from a point of clarity and drive and not from necessity and survival?
Bob Evett
00:06:42
So within the practice, yeah, should we revisit the Character Compass more than we do?
John Anderson
00:06:55
Perhaps. That was actually Steve's suggestion a long time ago. Why wouldn't we rotate the triangle? So you do Purpose for maybe a year, and then you do Core Values for a year, and then you do Principles for a year. Again, he didn't really have the prescription, but he was wondering if there's some way to sort of work around that.
Bob Evett
00:07:16
Yeah, I don't know if I would do it that way, but the idea of revisiting is kind of like the exercise I went through with Rob, where we did a check. So he had been in the practice for a couple of years, maybe more, 3, and then he wanted to go back and say, okay, is what I'm doing today really aligned? It's a good check. Also, from what you just read, the importance— and you know, I've always believed this— you can't navigate if you don't have the core values and the character compass. And so if that's the foundation, it seems like somewhere in the practice, because we kind of established that and then we began the practice, so we don't always go back. I'm just wondering.
John Anderson
00:08:32
I do go through the whole thing on my annual review.
Bob Evett
00:10:00
To try to build it into the other parts of the practice, maybe the annual, because most of my— do most of your annuals take 3 full hours?
John Anderson
00:10:10
Yeah.
Bob Evett
00:10:10
Okay, mine don't. So maybe I should pay more attention to the Character Compass.
John Anderson
00:10:15
But I, because I do include the character analysis. So I go through the whole thing and what I do— with principles, I'll say, let me just ask you again, let me read this back to you. And would you say that when you don't always operate that way, 'But when you do, your ship sails really smoothly.' And they, 'Yes.' So it's kind of a confirmation. 'Yes, when I'm being that person, I really like myself.'
Bob Evett
00:11:09
Well, and we ask them to review their entire document and plan before the annual. That's like we ask the kids to make sure they read the scouting report. We still go through it with them because we're not sure that they all read it with the depth that they should.
John Anderson
00:11:25
Well, and I gave credit, um, I lightened up on that way back in the business coaching. There are some people who really want to do the prep work beforehand, and there's some that aren't capable.
Bob Evett
00:11:39
I don't check them on it. I just don't.
Bob Evett
00:11:43
We bridge it enough that if they didn't do it, they're not going to be embarrassed. It's not going to be a problem.
Bob Evett
00:11:54
So that's a good idea. Maybe I need to go back and think about in the next series of annuals, where do we build in that check and evaluation which will give me the chance to reinforce with them how important that is. That's the whole steering mechanism for the ship. We don't revisit that occasionally. We could find that that changed, and so we're not—
John Anderson
00:12:17
We're off course. Well, it might be that it's almost like if I were sitting with somebody and we were doing their annual— I use reading a lot. So read that. Now, does your purpose do all those things for you? And if not, then let's sort of question that, because it's back to the idea of the 10 million triangles. It's okay even if you get the purpose half right. You're still starting to walk down that road.
Bob Evett
00:12:49
You're still ahead of 80% of the people.
John Anderson
00:12:51
You're ahead of 80% of the people and you're walking down the path that will ultimately get you there.
Bob Evett
00:13:08
Rob is committed to the journey. So is Jeff. They're committed in different ways. They're absolutely good. So is Ryan.
Bob Evett
00:13:33
Which is intriguing to me because he's so young.
Bob Evett
00:13:42
Because he's committed.
Bob Evett
00:13:45
So you want me to take us back to Meta-Intelligence now?
John Anderson
00:14:28
Yeah, and I've been reflecting on that also. Right now we're creating an entry-level tool, the Silver Program, which is essentially a triangle aided by AI. Meta-intelligence is accomplishing sort of what they're doing here — if you're not aware of what's happening, we're here to make you aware. And if you're feeling a sense of scarcity and confusion, we've got a tool that removes all that: the Exponential Leader Practice. So it's essentially naming that. Meta-intelligence would be another way to position people to want to go on an Exponential Leader Practice experience. Instead of calling it "we are as gods," it's Meta-intelligence. It's a hook. That's what I'm starting to think now.
Bob Evett
00:15:39
It kind of feels like foundational skills and knowledge that you'd want to have.
John Anderson
00:15:47
It's the visual in my mind, you know, for the group is that giant wave. I got to show you that slide sometime. It's essentially — I set up to that. I'm like, this is what's coming, right? And if you think you can just sit on the beach and have a cocktail and watch crazy surfers — does your investment advisor know anything about this wave? So it's coming and there's no way to avoid it. So let's figure out how to get on the right side of it. And that's then I think it's all our tools without having to specifically call it out as that.
Bob Evett
00:24:06
There's some really interesting things we could do with artificial intelligence and emotional intelligence doing a compare and contrast.
John Anderson
00:24:17
Yeah. So that's what I think this is about, is it's saying, here's what's coming. This is why I'm more qualified than anybody in the room to be sharing this with you, because the investment of time and money and so on. And by the way, again, I can back that story.
Ethan Brace
00:26:28
Sorry, I wasn't listening. But, uh, as far as— I did like what you said earlier about comparing and contrasting the artificial versus the emotional intelligence piece. There's something there, and I want to dig into that at some point. As far as the meta-intelligence overall idea, do people want that?
Bob Evett
00:25:50
So theoretically and simplistically, what we're doing is defining the elements of the Wave, and that's how it relates to the practice. And so it becomes an informational and motivational presentation to further — if they don't believe in the Wave, this will help them understand what the Wave is.
John Anderson
00:26:24
I like that.
John Anderson
00:28:23
It's the old— it starts off with the old presentation, hey, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Why don't I just marry the money? All you schmucks are working for a living. I'm not taking that route, so I'm just going to go right to the top. And so then achieving that left me in this interesting situation to say, this is not fulfilling or providing what everybody had sold me it does. So I went to that spot you all aspired to. Once I get there, there's a lot of that, right? I don't have time to do that right now because I'm trying to get there. I got there and realized it didn't deliver.
John Anderson
00:31:42
How many of the people in the room are able to clearly separate themselves and their business? [continues on entrepreneurs as the business, the baby analogy, the wave of disruption as their baby's future]
John Anderson
00:33:03
I think it's just— and maybe again, back to sort of setting the table on this is it's — I made a promise to all my clients that I never wanted to say, why didn't you tell me this was coming? It's like, this is the reason why McKeel Hagerty meets with me. I want — you're spending time in spaces that my peers are not. They're running their businesses, they're executing day to day, but they're not thinking about stuff, and I need somebody around me who's thinking about this stuff.
Ethan Brace
00:40:23
What's the feeling you want to convey for your presentation? I'm picturing like TEDx kind of talk, something inspirational, something informative?
John Anderson
00:40:34
I think so, because that's sort of my approach. And then you guys got to keep me from not insulting the people in the room. So yes, TEDx, inspiring, obviously want to inspire them to work with us, and informative in terms of sort of just another version of what's coming if you're not reading all these things. And I guess maybe my earlier thing is that I made a commitment that I wouldn't let people — that I'd make you aware of the waves coming and that, you know, you're not ignorant to just what, how big this is and how much—
Ethan Brace
00:41:19
Removing ignorance, helping people remove ignorance.
John Anderson
00:41:22
Well, so it's like, that's why the Wave is such a big deal. It's the two parts. One is that don't want you or your business, you or your family, and we'll include the business as part of the family in that sense, to get pummeled by this thing. And two, to remove the illusion that you don't need to pay attention to it.
Ethan Brace
00:42:42
Now it's almost like it's not optional because that's a big statement.
Ethan Brace
00:43:00
We're going through that right now. Uh, ignorance is not an option is the thing I'm hearing you saying.
John Anderson
00:43:08
Well, and maybe rather than say ignorance, because that's insulting, it's be more like, um, ignoring this is not an option, or some cool way.
Ethan Brace
00:44:36
This idea reminds me of a conversation I was having with my dad, um, a couple weeks ago. He's running for city council in Franklin, Kentucky, and I asked him, why are you doing this? To make change.
John Anderson
00:44:51
Okay.
Ethan Brace
00:44:51
What's the best way to affect change in people in general? And his answer was money. We figure out how to save people money.
John Anderson
00:45:02
I disagreed with him.
Ethan Brace
00:45:04
I think it's probably more around inspiration, touching on the emotional part of us, which we've been ignoring. For 20 years since the rise of social media. We've just been sucked into everyone else's lives that we forget to sit and feel.
John Anderson
00:45:28
What is the most inspirational thing that we could bring to your audience, the EO audience? Well, the one thing is you were in sort of your father's covenant. The nice thing about the benefit of our target audience is they're solidly in the career stage. So although they do have moments of sort of insecurity with money and so on, for the most part, they probably wouldn't have become an entrepreneur if they're letting that cause them any sleepless nights. So they're locked into like, how do I become independent and really nail this thing? And if I build enough fortress around me, then I'm really bulletproof.
John Anderson
00:49:42
And it's not because I'm disciplined. I'm a cocaine addict. It's because it's so powerful. It replaces everything else in your life. And I don't want to be scared of that wave either. I'm not letting that thing hit me and I'm not letting it hit any of you. I'm going to surf that son of a bitch.
Ethan Brace
00:50:01
You're not scared of it?
John Anderson
00:50:02
No. This is why I was kind of in the love and fear thing with Joe. I'm like, does fear service anything? I need to be respectful of what's happening. I need to be thoughtful and cognitive and all that stuff. But if I'm fearful, aren't I just like, ah, like that? That's how you get in an accident. That moment, you got a hundredth of a second as you're sliding out of control. You can either figure out how to ride through it or you can hit the brakes. Don't hit the brakes. You've completely lost control now.
Bob Evett
00:57:40
There is an athletic analogy, and I don't know that you would like these, but when athletes become more and more proficient, what they say is the game slows down.
John Anderson
00:57:52
Yes.
Bob Evett
00:57:53
Which is maybe a more relatable, at least for me, than on a motorcycle. And so the way they make decisions is different, and they're not frantic. The first day in the NFL, the game's really fast. Like, I'm just trying to keep up and figure out what's going on. But the people that are accomplished— in a way, the practice can help them slow down the wave.
John Anderson
00:58:20
That's cool.
Bob Evett
00:58:20
You can ride it better. If you understand. I'm even wondering— do surfers have methodology techniques that they use based on the size of the wave, the currents? Do they analyze any of that?
Bob Evett
01:10:14
I think the wave, my current perception is the wave is the best analogy to the story, and here's the reason. You choose to get on the snowmobile. Hendrickson chooses to jump out of an airplane. The guy in the UK chose to get on the motorcycle. We don't control the wave. All those other things are choices. So for the audience, they have to understand that something is transpiring — the circle of concern, circle of influence — and they can't control. And so they have to do something about it. They don't have to get on a motorcycle. They don't have to jump out of an airplane.
John Anderson
01:10:55
And I think that you're right, is that it's — and maybe that's, again, that's kind of the rejuvenation piece. I don't know what your rejuvenation activity is, but I'm saying it's critically important.
Bob Evett
01:12:48
I think that's pretty well written. I also think that there's an element — the cross-discipline nature of thinking today is much more important than it was 20 years ago. Making connections — letting things flow across disciplines will create, create.
John Anderson
01:13:22
And adding to yours is Arthur Brooks wrote a book, Strength to Strength. He said in the second half of life — the first half of life is the strength of learning, why you be a good student, PhD, and so on. That becomes harder in the second half of life. So he was 50 or something. You aren't as good at learning a new thing, but you are better at seeing the large picture. All those experiences, you start to see how the puzzle kind of fits in place.
Bob Evett
01:13:57
The tapestry.
John Anderson
01:14:02
It's the tapestry, and that's one of the gifts comes with aging.
Bob Evett
01:50:21
So while it's been wide-ranging, I think we're getting places. I mean, I feel much better about the presentation and how it connects. We will need to give the audience a good definition of those 4 elements because if we don't, they will think they understand it in a different way.
John Anderson
01:50:43
So let me pivot because there were a couple other topics to talk about. One is that I really like the silver-gold concept, and silver being, you know, let's get people in triangles — if we have that We will have that ready. That can be the offering that is at the end of the presentation. The gold is essentially the work we do right now, and then the platinum is this higher level — I propose it's for 4 people and they get the ride on the plane back to LA with Peter Diamandis. Maybe it's these exponential thinking things. There's a larger net that has definitely higher value stuff. So the dinners and all that stuff. So I do like that, that there's sort of 3 levels.
Ethan Brace
01:52:06
I mean, Peter Diamandis didn't get to where he's at without doing things like what you're talking about. Like, let's do a conference that costs lots of money. Let's set up a program where people who actually want to do the things you're talking about — be in the room, be on the plane — it costs lots of money.
John Anderson
01:54:33
The other piece that kind of steps before that is the whole Steve thing. So I did verify — I'm not sure we connected — everybody signed up. We got Elizabeth signed up. I reached out to the attorney, said, yep, she signed. We got Bob Maskus. So all that's left is Steve. We had a conversation last week kind of starting to frame this out. I'm like, well, we still go back to Steve and say, you can use the intellectual property for your use with one-on-one clients, that's fine. And, uh, you know, like he's doing the Granger, all that's good, but you can't create an LLM and you can't do this in any kind of group fashion and you can't bring it into another organization. So build those parameters around it.
Bob Evett
01:54:43
One is graciousness, the other is an obligation.
John Anderson
01:54:45
Yeah. So I think it goes back to the original. We remove that and we just basically say you can use it 1:1, and again, if an opportunity like Granger comes up, that's all fine. But beyond that, you can't create a company, you can't use this in an organization you're with now. This is just a Steve standalone thing. And the other piece — part of the reason you're signing off on this is one, we're closing Replace Retirement. Again, this is the only thing that stands in the way of this closure, um, but I've covered all the financial costs, I've covered all accounting costs, so if you want to remain a partner, you got to pony up for all that stuff.
Bob Evett
01:57:56
Steve's passive-aggressive, which means he has an intent that's uncovered. He may not fully be able to articulate it. Something that is so incredibly simple — yes, his follow-through is terrible, but it feels like there's more going on here.
Ethan Brace
02:15:58
Do you know who Alex Formosi is? He's a younger guy, maybe my age, maybe a little older, but he's grown a multimillion-dollar acquisition firm in, I don't know, less than 10 years. And one of the things that he says that sticks in my mind a lot is, "Give them an offer they can't refuse. Make saying no feel stupid." So, it's not intended to draw out the stupidity of the thing. Just, it's obvious there's a — oh, of course I would do that, why would I not? So for that 60%, what does that look like? Does that look like, um, offering them or giving them the opportunity to participate in some way, to learn from someone, to try a triangle? What's the silver program look like for those people? Like, what's enticing?
John Anderson
02:16:52
Well, that's maybe as we come to the meat of the presentation, maybe it comes back to the triangles that we've created this simple but elegant tool that reinforces every week just what we just explained to you. That you're making — we've talked about gratitude and here's all the benefits of it, and no one in the room is going to say, nah, that's bullshit. So like, yes, that's important, I could do more of that. And then the reading and applying it. Everybody would identify. And then the purpose. Yeah, if you had your purpose and you're saying it out loud, can you see how it sort of changes the whole direction of your life? By the way, it's free, or almost. Does that create the opportunity for the upsell?
John Anderson
02:20:57
How long do you think you'd have to do a triangle to get hooked?
Bob Evett
02:21:01
They're doing it weekly?
John Anderson
02:21:01
Yep.
Bob Evett
02:21:08
Um, my gut feel is 90 days. I wouldn't go longer than 90 days.
John Anderson
02:22:16
Okay, so 90 days, and then what would we charge? You're getting 2 people. Steve broke it down — it's $150 divided by 2 is right, so $35, whatever, $30, $37.50. I don't know. Yeah, I think it's $37.50 — and again, that's a little rounded up, so $40. So $40 a month times — I'm sorry, it's 90 days, right? So it's times 12 weeks.
Bob Evett
02:22:23
Just make it 12 weeks, 12 sessions.
John Anderson
02:22:23
12 sessions times 40, yeah, is like 500 bucks a year. Nothing. $500, you kick the tires on this thing. It's with the real coach, and if you like it, then we can talk about scaling up to the whole program. And if you want to just jump in with both feet, you know, we can talk about that too.
John Anderson
02:23:31
Anyway, all right, that's so — that's this whole thing, Meta-Intelligence is introducing people to what's coming, how do you navigate it and so on. And today we're offering you for $500, you can be in a triangle for 90 days with a coach and just see how — so we're laying out the model.
John Anderson
02:27:03
Dennis, when's the last time you talked to him?
Ethan Brace
02:27:10
It's been a couple weeks. That's one of my goals, is to get that delivered, something he can actually use. I'm still working out the bugs. Yeah, I want to make sure it's intuitive. So there's a lot of back and forth, yeah, building the thing. I owe him a check-in, I will say that.
John Anderson
02:28:26
At some point you got to sort of say we're — he's willing to help cook it, one, because he'd like to use it, but he also thinks we might be on to something. So he's in, because, you know, he's a bit of an entrepreneur himself. He invested in the drone company out here at the airport.
John Anderson
02:29:37
I'm comfortable in the early stage of this thing directing the revenues to Ethan. We track it. So if we signed Dennis up, I'm gonna get $100 a seat and 8 people sign up or whatever, that we can direct that revenue to Ethan without any share coming back to the company. Track it, have Cynthia track it. He's got some income coming out of this thing while we're in the building stage. And I did the same thing with my son — if you work with Ethan for 6 months, he'll coach you through this process. It's 5 grand, and if you end up getting engaged in the company, we'll treat it as capital.
Ethan Brace
02:29:37
Two [calls today].
John Anderson
02:33:52
Do you want to stay and watch that [Peter Diamandis webinar], or you want to keep going?
Ethan Brace
02:33:53
I do need to run.
John Anderson
02:34:16
I have a recording of everything he ever does, um, and so that's for the next Exponential Thinking in June. I got to figure out what we're going to be watching. That's what we typically do — I just say, let's watch this video, and then we have a conversation.
John Anderson
02:34:26
That's what led Kevin to buy the robot. I'm buying one right now. Might have done it while he was watching.
Bob Evett
02:34:33
I look forward to meeting it.
John Anderson
02:34:40
It's got eyes but no mouth. It's small, it's like 5'10". They didn't want to intimidate people, they didn't want it so heavy when it falls down. So I think it weighs about 60 pounds.
Bob Evett
02:35:22
Somebody sent me something that they just had a robot run a half marathon. I think they beat all the human beings.
John Anderson
02:35:26
It's again, that's the curve is straight up right now. So the idea of these humanoids being around is not crazy. All right, so next steps with this — you'll kind of send me back and—
Ethan Brace
02:35:40
Yeah, I'll send, I'll send you both a summary, um, and then the agreements — with the one that you sent with all the signatures already, the additional agreement. I'll send it to you, see if there's any pushback.
John Anderson
02:35:55
Yeah, and then when it's all set, then I can send it on to Steve with a phone call and just say, here's what you asked for. Um, you know, you close this down, it's just an entity floating out there that we're not following rules for. There's no banks, there's no nothing. It's just an un — it's a loose string. That will be the test if we use really serious that there is something else. Very well. Thank you for the time.

Appendix A: The Meta-Intelligence Concept

Captured from the session. John is actively developing this — it's not a finished framework. This appendix captures the idea as John articulated it on April 21, not a cleaned-up version of it.

The Core Concept

Meta-Intelligence, as John is framing it, is the capacity to be aware of what is happening in the world at an exponential level — and to position oneself to respond to it from clarity and purpose rather than from scarcity and fear. It's not a new intelligence type alongside IQ or EQ; it's a meta-level awareness that shapes how you engage all the others.

The name is a deliberate rebrand. John had previously framed this presentation concept as "we are as gods" (drawing from the Peter Diamandis & Steven Kotler book). He's moved away from that framing because it's alienating. Meta-Intelligence is the same idea — a kind of expanded awareness required to navigate an exponential age — but more accessible and less provocative for YPO and EO audiences.

"Meta-intelligence is another way to position people to want to go on an Exponential Leader Practice experience. Instead of calling it 'we are as gods,' it's Meta-intelligence. It's a hook." — John Anderson, 00:14:28

The underlying thesis, drawn from the reading John opened with (a book section on "the purpose of purpose" and exponential change): in a world moving at exponential speed, old linear tools — including old linear thinking habits — are "inappropriate tools to go to space." You can be highly skilled in what worked before and still be wrong-footed by what's coming.

John's framing of the problem: most people are sitting on the beach watching the wave. Some think they can opt out. Some are anxious. Very few are actually prepared to surf it. The Meta-Intelligence presentation is designed to (1) make people aware the wave is real and coming, (2) show them the intelligences needed to surf it, and (3) offer them a tool — the Silver Program triangle — to begin developing those intelligences immediately.

The Four Intelligences

John is experimenting with a four-part framework for what Meta-Intelligence encompasses. He's held this framework loosely — Bob pushed back gently on trying to segment them, noting they're more like overlapping domains than discrete buckets. But the four categories are:

  • Financial Intelligence — understanding how money is being made and lost in an exponential economy. John's example: if your financial advisor doesn't know what's happening with Bitcoin, blockchain, or where wealth is being generated and destroyed in the next decade, that's a problem. This doesn't mean speculating; it means being aware.
  • Artificial Intelligence — understanding what AI can and can't do, and where it's headed. John's honest framing: AI may be able to do many things a coach does — access all written knowledge, analyze patterns, provide guidance at scale. The question isn't whether that's true; it's whether you have a practice that makes you more than an information conduit.
  • Natural Intelligence — awareness that nature, biology, and physical rhythm matter. The science: spending time in nature restores cognitive function, enables creativity, and is measurably good for performance. John's rejuvenation pillar (snowmobiling in Quebec, the month off) is this in practice. "People, once you bring it up, they're all like, yeah, I do feel better in nature."
  • Emotional Intelligence — the human capacity for purpose, empathy, self-awareness, relationship, and meaning. This is where the Character Compass, Legacy Map, and triangle live. Bob's insight: AI can simulate this but can't replace it. The compare-and-contrast between AI and EI is the most powerful hook for executive audiences because they've already felt the AI threat and are quietly asking what their moat is.

Bob's push: the four don't belong in a hierarchy or a linear sequence. They're more like a constellation — constantly in interplay. Forcing them into a 1-2-3-4 presentation structure may lose the organic nature of how they reinforce each other. John agreed, but hasn't resolved the visual yet. Bob suggested a circle or constellation rather than a numbered list.

The Wave Setup — How It Leads into the Practice

The Meta-Intelligence presentation is structured around the Wave metaphor. Here is how John described the arc at 02:23:31:

"Meta-Intelligence is introducing people to what's coming, how do you navigate it and so on. And today we're offering you for $500, you can be in a triangle for 90 days with a coach and just see how — so we're laying out the model." — John Anderson, 02:23:31

The wave setup works in stages:

  1. The retirement myth. Everyone in the room was sold the same story — work hard, get to the top, then relax on the beach. John lived it early and can report back: it doesn't deliver. "I went to that spot you all aspired to. Once I get there — I got there and realized it didn't deliver."
  2. The wave appeared. Small waves became 80-foot rollers. The exponential curve changed the game for everyone, whether they noticed or not. The people in the audience are good at riding 20-foot waves. That skill is now insufficient.
  3. The choice. You can sit on the beach (seems comfortable, but the wave hits you anyway). Or you can get on the right side of it. The framing is not: are you brave enough to surf? The framing is: the wave doesn't care whether you're paying attention to it.
  4. The intelligences. To ride this wave, you need Meta-Intelligence — specifically the four elements above. Each one has evidence behind it. Natural intelligence: documented in healthcare literature. Emotional intelligence: decades of research. Financial intelligence: your advisor either knows this or doesn't. Artificial intelligence: it's in the room whether you invited it or not.
  5. The offer. We have a tool. The triangle — your purpose, your readings and applications, your goals — reviewed weekly in a group with a coach. 12 sessions, 90 days, $500. "Make saying no feel stupid."

Key Quotes from the Session

"If you think you can just sit on the beach and have a cocktail and watch crazy surfers — does your investment advisor know anything about this wave? So it's coming and there's no way to avoid it." — John Anderson, 00:15:47
"We grew up with the myth that you would work your ass off to do something you don't like, and then finally one day you get to kind of smell the roses, enjoy it. The data doesn't demonstrate that." — John Anderson, 00:41:22
"Ignoring this is not an option — or some cool way. Yeah, yeah, I can figure something out." — John Anderson, 00:43:08 (on reframing "ignorance is not an option")
"I think the wave is the best analogy to the story, and here's the reason. You choose to get on the snowmobile. Hendrickson chooses to jump out of an airplane. The guy in the UK chose to get on the motorcycle. We don't control the wave." — Bob Evett, 01:10:14
"In order to surf that wave, these are the intelligences you need, which we're calling meta-intelligence. It could still be the name of the whole thing, or we can rename it. And it's all setting up all things that we have in our legacy map, Character Compass, and so on." — John Anderson, 00:28:20

Open Questions John Left Unresolved

  • How exactly will Meta-Intelligence be delivered — workshop, keynote, online course, or chapter in a future book?
  • What is the presentation's exact length and format for the West Michigan YPO breakfast (25 people, likely 45–60 min max)?
  • How do the four intelligences get visually represented — hierarchy, circle, constellation? Bob's instinct is constellation; John hasn't decided.
  • Should the term "Meta-Intelligence" be the permanent name, or a working title? It hasn't been tested with an audience yet.
  • Does the Silver Program triangle need to be fully built before the presentation, or can the talk stand alone and generate a waitlist?
  • What's the exact definition of each of the four intelligences that will land correctly without confusion? Bob flagged: "natural intelligence" risks sounding like "I'm naturally intelligent."